Looks like the Great Firewall or something like it is preventing you from completely loading www.skritter.com because it is hosted on Google App Engine, which is periodically blocked. Try instead our mirror:

legacy.skritter.cn

This might also be caused by an internet filter, such as SafeEyes. If you have such a filter installed, try adding appspot.com to the list of allowed domains.

New blogpost on the the final "-ing"

podster   January 21st, 2015 6:59p.m.

Very interesting and a hot topic for many of us, I'm sure. I've known for a while about regional differences (such as people in Shanghai not pronouncing the nasal final "-ng") but this is the first time I have seen it written that the vowel sound is also different in "pin" and "ping".

In the Zhuyin sound representation system the "~ing" of Pinyin is the combination of a symbol for a medial vowel sound i and another symbol for the final consonant "eng". So ping is written ㄆㄧㄥ (p + i + eng)

Maybe this is where the author (Olle Linge) got the idea for the hypothetical illustration of a "pieng" spelling.

Also an interesting discussion of "mental categories," which could also be an argument for learning Zhuyin.

gua nö   January 21st, 2015 10:43p.m.

I must admit that I don't hear any difference between the /i/ sound in 'pin' and the /i/ sound in 'ping' and I just looked at a few sources (including wikipedia) and they all write that the IPA for 'ping' is [pʰiŋ].

本杰明   January 23rd, 2015 2:40p.m.

For me, I hear pYing, jYing etc. There's a Y sound in there.

Molndrake   January 25th, 2015 4:13p.m.

@Podster: That's the way the sound is transcribed in IPA if you go into enough detail, there is an [ə] in there. However, as you say, this is reflected more clearly in Zhuyin. This is also true for some other sounds, actually, such as (Pinyin) "chun", which has the "-en" ending "visible" in Zhuyin, but not in Pinyin (where it would be "chuen").

@乖囡: Did you check the audio I referred to? As mentioned in the article, not all native speakers make the difference and not all make it clearly, but the two examples I linked to should be very clear. Regarding IPA, the reason you don't see the [ə] is because the transcription isn't narrow enough (or because you base your analysis on a speaker which doesn't pronounce it this way, of course).

@本杰明: I think that depends on what you mean by "a Y sound". If you mean as in "you" in English, this is not far from the truth. The "i" is often reduced to a [j] (often superscript, but can't write that here). This can also happen on syllables that doesn't have an initial, such as "ying" (so called zero onset).

This forum is now read only. Please go to Skritter Discourse Forum instead to start a new conversation!