I hate to clog with the forum with a general language question. But in the absence of a better place to post, I hope you'll forgive me :-) Here goes:

The question's about 差得远， as seen in this sentence:

我喜欢做饭菜，可是，离厨师的水平还*差得远*呢！

In this sentence which 差 is used? Is it 差 cha1 (difference, discrepancy) or 差 cha4 (short of, to lack)? In my mind both are plausible. I'm wondering which expression Chinese people actually use.

Putting the phrase into Skritter's queue gives cha4, with the meaning "not by a long shot".

So, Chef Li's level still not by far. [IE, I'm still not as good as him] - right :s?

cha4 would make sense in that case. Short of/lacking his skill by a long way.

The grammar appears to suggest that the verb is meant --> fourth tone

无法保证

I would tend to agree though I'm not 100% sure. The meaning appears to support the 'short of' definition and I seem to remember in grammar lessons this use of 得 being a type of 补语 as in 差不多，差点儿，etc. Then again, I've never been a quick grammar study.

An aside, I think discussing Chinese grammar here (and of course, Japanese grammar) is quite appropriate and not at all clogging the forum.

This grammar point, on the other hand, is useless - but it might interest some grammar geeks. Using 左右 and 前后:

WRONG：　他在四点半左右来了。 (He came at around 4:30.)
RIGHT:　他在四点半前后来了。　

WRONG: 他学了一个小时前后。 (He studied for about an hour.)
RIGHT: 他学了一个小时左右。

The problem is that most Chinese (even one Chinese teacher I have and a textbook and a dictionary) get this wrong while my grammar book and head teacher say that technically 左右 is for periods of time and 前后 is for points in time.

This might be one of those grammar rules that have changed. It did get me thinking though.

Oh, and I don't guarantee I didn't make other errors in the examples above (though if you find some, do let me know - feedback is fruit for learning).

@乙伤害:

I always like to use 百度 to check my grammar:

"点半前后来" 11篇
"点半左右来" 8,290篇 --> 左右

"一个小时前后" 152篇
"一个小时左右" 60,500篇 --> 左右

But:
"1949年前后" 59,400篇 --> 前后
"1949年左右" 3,780篇

Thanks guys. I figured it was 差 cha4, but wanted to make sure.

I asked my (Chinese) fiancee this question. After a five-second silence she blurted out "I don't know!" She thought about it another thirty seconds, then added "I can't tell what tone it is. Don't worry. Chinese people don't know the difference." :-D

Byzanti, just caught something in your post. I think the 离 in 离厨师的水平还差得远呢 is not a surname, as in 离厨师 (Chef Li). It's this kind of 离：

学校*离*他家很近。

我通常聽到“差得很遠”這句話。語言夥伴糾正我錯誤的時候，我就跟她說“差不多吧！”，然後她回答說“差得很遠！”。

murrayjames,

Not familiar with that structure - is there any difference to the translation, or is it just for emphasis of distance?

Cheers

Byzanti,

I'm not rock solid on this either; maybe someone can correct me if I get this wrong. This is how I think of it:

学校[离]他家很近。
The school [from] his place is very close.
= The school is close to his place.

[离]厨师的水平还差得远呢。
[away from] a chef's skill I'm still lacking very far.
= I'm still very far from a chef's skill.

In this structure 离 is used with 近 and 远; the meaning is "from this point... close/far". The structure can be used in sentences that don't refer to physical distance, like in the chef sentence above.

Ah! Cheers :).