http://www.skritter.com/forum/topic?id=48521120&comments=14

I've asked once about learning new characters. The question was about being able to write the same character several times by erasing it each time after it had been completely written. This is a good idea which I utilize daily.

However, there is one aspect I find as missing: when I write (on paper) one line of the same character - I see the previous I've written AND I see the original one. Why it might be important? To learn to write strokes at the proper places accordingly to the lines within the square (sorry, don't know how to call them :). I mean, this way I can have a really proper handwriting.

How the handwriting problem can be attacked with the current features in the system? I do have a tablet, but the automatic animations always correct my handwriting even if I write it very close to original the characters (that are transformed to the classic version like being written by brush). How can I see the difference between my handwriting and the correct version (better when the complete character is written, like A-B test) to be able to make some fixes by myself first?

have you tried settings -> write raw squigs?

http://www.skritter.com/account/settings-language - can't find it there. Where should I look at, please?

it's on the practice page upper right corner...

Ah, that's much better and fills the requirement partially.

I'll try to explain the point of view of someone who is just starting: it would be nice to see the three states - (A) the original sample, (B) the what I've wrote before (one or more) and (C) what I am writing now. Each time I write a new stroke I would concentrate where precisely in the square it should reside. At the current situation I see all my errors altogether and only when the character writing is completed.

I think skritter is more about getting the character somehow right, not so much about calligraphy... although personally I would love to have calligraphy features, I don't think the skritter guys will have time for that in the next few years ;-)

Skritter is a very powerful tool yet new features might bring more users :)

What I suggest is not a revolutionary feature that requires a complete code rewrite, but a moderate interface tweak. It's not about calligraphy, it's more about having more or less correct handwriting that can be applied to _any_ language and can be especially valuable for newbies.

Don't worry about it. You're handwriting will improve by just using Skritter. You'll get used to the shape of the strokes, radicals, and their differences, and be bombarded with little zen flashes of realisation* as you go on.

Your writing will be clearer, better proportioned and more functional than non-Skritter using and non-Japanese laowai. Understanding the characters is the big thing. Give it time, you can miss out on the drilling.

* PS, does anyone know how to say this concept in Chinese?

Well, maybe you are right and I should just trust the system as it is.

I perfectly understand that all the ideas in Skritter come from wise people who care and think a lot. Having said that, the author of this comment has an international teaching experience, developing coursewares/methodologies and targeting all kinds of audiences.

Perhaps, some improvement ideas still can be raised. Probably there are things that can aim the targets in a more efficient way for some people, since there is no single most efficient way for everyone :)

breakphreak,

I used to use Skritter, like everyone else, with a mouse or tablet pen. Now my character writing is completely analog--pen and paper. I made the switch three months ago because

1) My real-world handwriting was terrible, and

2) I was forgetting how to write characters in China that I already *knew* on Skritter.

Now I practice next to my computer. I use Skritter to serve me with questions, which I write with pencil on notepaper. I'm very strict with my grading and I can't use Skritter's animations or handwriting recognition algorithms to help me. This is slower but so far has paid its weight in gold.

I first brought this up before there was a "raw squigs" mode. Here:

http://www.skritter.com/forum/topic?id=32367981

@murrayjames: glad to hear that there are more people who would find that feature useful (or almost necessary, if I get you right). True said, it's not about calligraphy, it's more about the script skills (proportions of letters etc) and can be very good for any language (Kanji, Katakana, Hiragana or anything else).

Interesting idea. I would try this out. I'm not into the idea of adding another mode, though, and much of the impetus for the original raw squig mode was precisely to not see the Skritter-style strokes (as they were giving too much of a hint), so I dunno.

In general, we do want to focus less on good styling and more on learning characters as fast as possible. One part of writing characters is the flow from stroke to stroke. It is not necessarily good to stop and adjust if you are getting the proportions wrong, because now you've messed up the flow. (I know that stopping does occur frequently when there are recognition issues or you've only remembered part of a character, but at least you can try to avoid adding in more stopping.)

I see your point about stopping in the middle and it is perfectly clear, justified and might lead to some users frustration.

I also see and understand better about the priorities: recognizing characters first, aesthetics after :)

I'll try to use squids mode to see how helpful can it be (sounds much better then the current mode, since after 10 or 50 repetitions I've succeeded to write complete characters - and many thanks for that :)

But we are already in the middle of the road: for example we learn the correct strokes' order. So with another leap over the corner we could fill the gap between true writing skills which can be very handy especially in China, where people used to write when hear but not understand (ting bu dong :) I've been there for 4 months and my true hope to get back sooner or later fully-equipped.

I'd put it another way: if I am the only one who cares to learn to write to be understood (not calligraphically, only clear enough) - than all the thread doesn't worth a penny. However, if this feature sounds interesting enough and will attract more happy customers - maybe it worth to dedicate a few more minutes to think about it in general.

Thanks for noticing this thread and for replying :)

No you're not the only one, but I have to agree with Byzanti that, at least for me, skritter already provides enough training (I'm using raw squigs only) to write characters on paper without any problems... you have to scale everything down anyway, so if you really want to have a pretty handwriting, you'll probably have to practice on paper... but if you just want people to understand your character, skritter should be enough...

Cleanly, there will be users of both kinds :) Those that like everything about Skritter and those that like but would be happy to have a more complete package of services (read: skills that can be learned with Skritter).

Again, I am not talking about pretty handwriting here, just something that will look better then 4 years old scribbles. And yes, paper is one kind solution, but accompanied with Skritter features can make it more powerful (and greener).

@breakphreak my results from Skritter have already been good enough on paper that I don't feel the need for any additional calligraphy training, but my goal is simply "legible 汉字" rather than "beautiful 汉字".

Again, to emphasize - I am not talking about over-prettiness / calligraphy, but being able to write Chinese more or less like a school student :)

Glad to hear that for you it worked out of the box. Personally I (and @murrayjames perhaps) feel that it might be improved a bit.

I am wondering why people are a bit over-defensive here. I do like Skritter, intending to continue to pay for it and going to open a second account for my girlfried (her progress might be different than mine, so she'll probably need her own profile and settings). To my mind, contributing well-based ideas that will bring more customers and will make the learning process more effective (even widening the skills a bit) is a good way to follow. Not saying that every proposal should be immediately adopted, but not immediately declined as well :)

@breakphreak by "over-defensive" maybe you were referring to wb and myself? If so, I apologize for the misunderstanding, but I think you have misinterpreted our comments; we are just other users who are saying that this feature would not be for us.

James

ah, thanks... all in a friendly way, no need to apologize :)

We'll see if there will be more of those that can make use of the suggestion (like @murrayjames, for example).

On the contrary, I understand that you are way ahead of my skills, so you probably dream of a features of your own :)

over-defensive? nono, I just want skritter to include the features I want first ;-). No, really, just saying that you should give raw squigs a bit more time, maybe you'll make the same experience as I did (that you're handwriting is at least ok)

where are the features you propose (thread URL perhaps)? give me a chance to contribute my voice as well.

ok right now three things come to my mind:
- a manual, so that you can read up on all the features of skritter, like raw squig mode and get some background information to study efficiently
- custom colors for tones
- different study settings for different lists

manual is always pretty necessary (I still don't know what "Heisig words" means, for example)

custom colors? I've thought we do have them (orange, blue, green etc)?

which settings? like repetitions etc?

looks like it all worth a different thread to discuss :)

different settings: I study using Heisig (that's where the keywords come from) (http://nirc.nanzan-u.ac.jp/publications/miscPublications/Remembering%20Hanzi%201.htm) and I take Chinese classes. So for my Heisig list I'd like to study only characters, while for my Textbook list I'd like to study everything, including pronunciation...
custom colors: yeah we have colors, but you can't choose yourself, I want to give those tone-colors a try, but not with the ones available

Actually I wasn't too serious with my comment...maybe the skritter guys could give us a sneak preview of things to come?

(the link is broken, but I'll google)

yep, in some systems there is kinda "voting" mess about the new features etc :)

I actually think about the following: the more people gonna pay ahead (say 6 months ahead) in favor of a particular feature - the higher the feature priority should be :)

@breakphreak I have made approximately 934,324,948 suggestions so far. Search in the forum if you want to see them all. One or two of them have even been implemented. ;)

I see it now :)