Just read this months's newsletter. I'm looking forward to using the new app. By the way, I assume this is the app to use Skritter on Iphones/Itouches, right ?

Anyway, thanks for the hard work, Skritter guys ! Can any of you give a rough estimate as to around when the app will be released and how much it will cost ?

Thanks again !

I'm a bit upset about this news about the iOS app being on the horizon. I'm afraid that I might have to do something rash in the near future and buy an iPhone... *shudder* Aside from supporting a company whose business model and public image I find upsetting, I'm also afraid of how long I can hold on to a phone any more expensive than my 200 kuai Nokia without it breaking, getting lost, or being stolen.

Speaking of buying an iPhone, though, I understand that some Chinese carriers have some kind of contract-like deal where you basically pay the price of the phone in carrier service and the phone is yours or something along those lines. Anyone have any experience with that sort of thing here, and if so, any recommendations for which carriers to look at for the best 3G/4G service and availability of the iPhone?

I feel like the newsletter piece is a little vague as to when it might be available for download. I would also appreciate some kind of a hint as to the release date of the app.

I, for one, would love to see it in the next number of weeks. Any chance of that?

@Fiachra are you from Ireland, by any chance ?

Bohan, I am indeed. What about yourself?

oh cool. I don't suppose you were part of this past summer's Hanyu Qiao, were you ? I'm from the states

no, I wasn't actually. didn't compete in this year's competition either :(

@FatDragon I understand people might feel as if it's better to buy an iPhone or iPad now because of this. I'm using the iPhone and iPad of my gf now and then and I must agree I would prefer not to support Apple, there are too many things I find unnecessarily lacking and just plain bad, and arrogant. There is an interesting combination of progression and stalmate. At the same time there are positives in this phone and tablet, and the Skritter app will be a big positive; it's going to be more convenient, save time for who needs to and the Skritter experience will be the best. So it will be interesting to see how many people will switch to iOS mainly for Skritter. Or will wait for the Android app:)

I guess the iPhone/iPad screen is a big plus for Skrittering, don't know if Android tablets have this kind of smooth screen for Skrittering.

Question for you guys:

I'm not a big tech guy, so I don't know what you mean when you say that Apple is "arrogant" and that you don't want to support them. Why ? Please share your views, as this is all news to me

I don't have much use for a mobile phone - I use a cheap Samsung one. But I use an iPod Touch, so no monthly charge and Internet connection at home or at hot spots. I suppose that Pleco stuff works on Android too, but I don't know much about alternatives - I just find the iPod Touch a good device to have - albeit by Apple.

I love my iPhone and I love Skritter! I think they will be great together. Skritter iOS has been on the "horizon" a long time, surely it's now just at the next set of traffic lights... Anyway, I'm sure all users would like to know an expected launch date/month(s).

I think the app should be free, and works with a paid skritter subscription.

For me, I don't feel it will be a substitute to sitting down and writing out characters on my wacom, but it is a very welcomed addition to what is already a great service. It also means we can skritter on the move, and also stay on top of reviews which seem to be never ending...

@Bohan - Apple sells their products, particularly computers, at a significant price premium compared to competitors that often offer more powerful or versatile products. They can do this because they've created a culture in which Apple products are viewed as sophisticated, cutting edge, and hip. An iPhone, an iMac, an iPod, an iPad, these are all two parts device and one part fashion accessory, and that extra 50% over something that's pure device comes out of your wallet. Maybe I've just seen one too many Macbook Pros paired with skinny jeans, indie rock t-shirts, and venti half-caf lattes, but I feel like most Apple products are for hipsters (that's a bad word, by the way) and suckers.

The other big thing I dislike about Apple is how they tout OSX so much but it's the only personal computer operating system that I know of that is only licensed to run on hardware produced by a specific company. Even though plenty of non-Apple computers could run OSX just dandy, Apple requires consumers to buy their overpriced hardware to run their operating system. I don't have any desire to run OSX one way or the other, but I consider that bad form, and a fact that makes it ludicrous that Microsoft is targeted with anti-trust suits while Apple is left to their own devices.

@bennyboyk - I think charging for the app makes perfect sense - so much time that could have been spent on improving the website or creating an Android app has instead been spent on an iOS app that only benefits a fraction of Skritterers. Getting all of the benefits that the iOS app will offer makes the value you get out of Skritter greater than that which a non-iOS user will get, meaning an added cost - probably a one-time cost of $10-20 - is perfectly reasonable and could even be considered a steal for anyone using the iOS app.

@ Bohan - typically the arrogance claims arise from Apple's high profit premiums and their insistence on closed, integrated systems (only their hardware with their OS, etc). IMHO this usually comes from people that are similarly biased towards their respective system - ignoring the faults or corporate inconsistencies that may arise (Don't be evil!). That also disregards that if you want similarly well-designed products (comparable to the MB Air, or iPhone, etc) you usually end up in the upper bracket of Windows or Android markets, where prices aren't exactly crazy bargains by comparison.

Generally any argument about arrogance [or not] is coming from a small subset of the all purchasers - most people really don't care.

@FatDragon - I wouldn't be offended by a price for the app, given that I knew I wasn't paying for that when I subscribed, but I think $20 would be exorbitant. $5-10 is more reasonable (if any).

Interesting, thanks for the replies !

I have one more question for the Skritter tech team. I plan on using the app with my Itouch, and I remember you guys saying that we will somehow be able to use Skritter without being online. Could you tell me if I'll be able to do that with "tracking on" ? So, my question is, if I study a list while being offline, will I somehow be able to load my results to the site's SRS , so that it will know what I've already done, and which items I missed ?

I wouldn't mind paying for the app, considering that Nick and Scott have spent nearly a year working on it.

Yep, I would second the opinion of others in saying that I wouldn't mind paying for the app.

All I want is some kind of a guide as to when it might appear. Next month, 3 months, 5 months away. All of these are better than not knowing. At the very least I would know when to purchase my next phone, and I could probably stop checking for iOS app news every day...

@Bohan, I think what you described is the "entire point" of the app: offline study which syncs seamlessly to the server when you go online. The server then records and adapts to your offline progress and you're ready to go again...as far as I can tell anyway!

@ jamesdawg - re: syncing of offline study - that's my impression too. If the app required 'always connected' by 3G or Wifi it would be pretty useless to me as the times I'd use it most are on public or long-distance transportation!

Can the iPhone app be used on an iPad ?
(just want to make sure)

@mw

yes iphone apps can be used on the ipad, the resolution is not suited to the larger screen though and they become pixelated if you make them full-screen.

As I understand, though, the team are also planning to release a version of the app which is optimized for the ipad.

We aren't close enough to give a release date yet--we'll only announce that when we're sure we can hit it. It's tough, because for the App Store release, the app needs to be super solid and polished, so we can't do our usual thing of putting something out there and then improving it as we go. It's not going to be ready in the next several weeks, but that's all I'll say for now.

The current plan is for the app to be free with a very basic set of characters to practice, and you have to have a Skritter subscription to do everything else. So you don't pay extra if you're already subscribed.

We've worked very hard on the offline study and easy server sync, so yeah, it'll be great for iPods. We are planning on releasing the iPad layout at the same time as the same app, although we're not totally sure, and haven't really started that part yet!

I'm not too keen on Apple's closed policies, either, but according to our polls about half of current Skritter users have some sort of iOS device, and everyone wants the app, and so we're doing it.

I think the current plan for the app really works, giving ppl who are new to Skritter a chance to try before they buy - without a credit card.

The more ppl using Skritter, the better!

@fat Dragon, to my knowledge only China Unicom has a contract deal with the iPhone and it's not great.

I'm hoping to get one through my company as we are going iOS for everything here.

The deal is sign up to a 2 year contract and pay a (crazy expensive) deposit before getting rebates over the 24 months. For example, I will take out a 2 year contract at 286 RMB per month, I will have to pay a deposit of 5880 RMB and will get a 16GB iPhone 4. China Unicom will then rebate me 245 RMB each month off my bill.

So: as long as I don't go over the 900 minutes (can be uses anywhere in China), 1.1 GB, 380 texts and 40 picture messages per month, then I should pay 41 RMB each month. You can check out all the options here: iphone.10010.com/buy/

If you choose to go it alone and just buy a cheap iPhone 3G you'll need to be on China Unicom or China Telecom (and ask for a "3G" number - starting with 18 - apparently their other numbers only allow 2G service) as China mobile has a Chinese version of "3G" that is not compatible with iPhones or any phones from overseas.

I would take that deal. However, since wages are lower in China, what appears to be $1160 for an iPhone 4 plus 2 years of a pretty good service, is probably more like $3000 to someone in the US. However, even that is lower than a comparable AT&T voice+data plan in the US! Without the phone!

I just remembered why I didn't get an iPhone... damnit why can't I just run the app on my good old 'brick' phone that I got for 70kuai nearly 3 years ago! Oh Skritter, I'm so conflicted :(

I guess it's not too bad. And the deposit makes sense as otherwise people would have no qualms about taking out the contract on a false ID and then 'disappearing' before the 2nd payment!

I left the UK before smart phones existed in the mainstream and so am used to a 200 RMB contract over 1 year with what ever the best phone was at the time for free - no deposit.

My only issue is the deposit is substantially higher than the cost of the phone. Remember this is a 4 not a 4s, you can get a 4s in Hong Kong for 6000 HKD right now, and a 4 for a lot under 5,000 RMB easy in Shanghai.

I guess it works out to be a good deal, especially since I only have to lump up the deposit and the company will pay the bills (and pay me back the 245 RMB each month) - I just better stay loyal to my employer ;)

@terris Although prevalent in the US, the iPhone is definitely a luxury item and something of a status symbol in many places, including Europe (I would guess in the US as well, although I haven't lived there in awhile so perhaps things have changed). Maybe not in the same way that a BMW or LV bag is, but you certainly don't expect to see them as much among poorer segments of society, students, etc as among the wealthy, working professionals, etc. Same in China - I'd guess most sales are to the rich, as well as China's 'upper'-middle class (which includes most legitimate workers in Tier 1 cities).

Also keep in mind that many, many Chinese of reasonable means do not purchase a car (as opposed to the obligation in the US), which makes strictly wage comparisons not completely informative about disposable income after perceived necessities.

I think the deal is a pretty damn good one, if you know you'll be in China for 2 years.

Nick, thanks for the rough idea on the release date and how the app will work. That is good to know.

@ocastling - that actually sounds like a pretty good deal. I'd love it to be the 4S, though I don't actually know what they changed from the 4 to the 4S so I'm sure I wouldn't notice a difference anyway, and if I do go for it maybe they'll offer the 4S by then anyway.

As I see it, if I were to buy an iPhone on my own, I might end up spending 245 RMB or more a month on phone service anyway, so basically I'm prepaying two year's worth of phone service and being given an iPhone 4 for free if I go for that deal. The cost of buying a 4,500+ RMB iPhone 4 and then monthly service for two years would be much higher.

As for the opportunity cost, wages for full-time work as a foreigner can actually be moderately competitive compared to our home countries. I make probably 2/3 of what I would make in the US in a similar job, but my cost of living is probably 1/8 or so, so I'm way better equipped to buy an iPhone here than I would be in the States, not to mention you need to spend $80 a month to have decent service with an iPhone in the States, versus what equates to about $45 in the above plan which appears to offer more than I would use anyway.

Catherine - if you're on a tight budget, get a used iPhone 3GS, it should be relatively cheap now.

什么时候给咱们用安掉平板的造一款程序嘛 (◑.◑)

@DaXia - considering that the site can run natively on Android with some tweaks and some performance issues, it's much less of a priority, I think. Don't count on it for a couple years...

Don't get a 3GS with ios 5, its to slow.
iphone 4 is really the minimum (works quite nicely, have one myself).

Whether you view apple as overpriced or not depends what market segment you usuallu buy in.

But for thin and light notebooks built well , apple is hard to beat. Samsung comes close but doesn't always get the same attention to detail.

For mac pros, they are priced similarly to Dell and HP high end workstations with similar specs (except the Dell and HP have better graphics options available and get updated more often).

Me I like macs (unix with a pretty interface).
Send a lot of time on linux building embedded linux (open embedded) stuff (omap processors) and working on embedded systems (embedded linux , micro controllers , fpgas) with commandline or remotely.
Plus to much time in windows (works crappy exchange mail server that will only work with outlook due to a very poor setup)



For 4 to 4s, dual core processor (4s is arm cortex A9 vs single core arm cortex A8 in 4), improved wifi range and speed, improved 3g, better reception, better audio dsp,better noise cancelling , siri.
Nothing dramatic.

I'll be waiting for an iphone 5 to upgrade but will also be buying an android phone for development stuff (currently using a pandaboard for dev stuff).

quad core(cpu) android phones should be out for christmas

If you're getting an apple device solely to use the upcoming iOS app, then a 3GS or whatever the iPhone equivalent is should be fine. That's my current phone (soon upgrading) and I'm using it for development and speed testing, so you should not see any jitters or problems with the initial release. Later versions of the Skritter iOS app may drop support for 3GS later on though.

One might also consider that for the past few years Mac growth has far exceeded that of the PC and this includes the enterprise. Some believe this is due to the iPad, iPhone, iPad trio.

Another thing that will eventually grow Apple's market share is the rumored merge of iOS and Mac OS. Features from the iPad and iPhone have already been added to the MacBook Air. Next comes the possibility of a switch of the Mac line from Intel processors to the Arm processor line used in the iDevices when the 64bit ARM processors appear.

All this points to a single platform for all Apple devices making multi-device development easier.

I you all are desperate for the iOS app, but don't want to shell out for an iPhone, buy an iPod touch. I bought mine here in China at an authorized retailer.

I am alpha testing the app. I can use the app offline with no problem. When I want to sync, I just turn on wifi, and my progress is updated.

Brand new, the iPod touch is $220 US (in China, which is more expensive in the US). I'm sure you can get last year's model for cheap on eBay.

@Scott: Any idea on how long before the 3GS support is dropped? I've been given a second hand one so I'd really love to join the alpha testing if you're still adding people to the list? :)

We are not sure if/when we'll drop 3GS support, Catherine :). Probably not right away. The waiting list is pretty much full at this point, unfortunately.

Ok :(. Is there a waiting list waiting list? :P
I still think that the phone can't beat using a tablet, so all is not lost while I wait for the release!
Just wish I hadn't sold my iPad now, I found out about the Skritter app about a week afterwards!

I'll start a waiting list waiting list section of the waiting list, but only on the grounds that I'm not committing to post responses to anyone asking to be put on it, or to make sure that I get everyone, since I doubt that we'll get to that section.

Apple machines are high end. A comparable PC is in the same price range as an Apple machine. Of course, you can get a PC for less with less, I'm talking about a name brand. Anyway, last I looked, companies can sell an item for whatever price they choose.

I don't understand what is so bad about a company writing an OS that runs on its architecture only. Apple has changed the CPU in it's machines and will probably do it again. So when this happens what does Apple do with all the users running OS X on a different non-Mac based architecture?

Controlling OS X also reduces compatibility issues and gives Apple greater freedom in adding and scheduling fixes and new features.

Mac OS X runs on PCs, but even if you buy a copy of OS X, it violates the user agreement.

I think about this app every hour of every day. I am so excited to get to skritter on the metro!