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Beginning to study jiantizi

GrandPoohBlah   December 31st, 2011 12:52a.m.

I have been learning traditional characters in a classroom setting, and I feel that I'm at the point now where I should start learning simplified characters too. The way I want to learn is:

-I want to study simplified separately from traditional; for instance, if I'm using Skritter, I don't want a simplified character to pop up right after a traditional one; that would just be confusing
-I want to study simplified forms of all the characters and words I've added so far to Skritter, but I don't want to mix in characters that have the same jiantizi and fantizi form into my simplified studies; I only want to study characters that have different forms
-I only want to study reading, not writing

Any ideas on how to accomplish this, not necessarily using Skritter? If I just use the "study simplified and traditional" feature in the settings, it does seem to me that I would have to violate at least two of the three requirements I set out for myself above.

Perhaps an export words list, convert to simplified and import into Anki? I think I would violate at least one of my requirements if I do that, however.

Roland   December 31st, 2011 2:00a.m.

The easiest way, I could think about is the following:
1. export all words and characters into e.g. Word
2. in Word, go to review, translate and let it translate from Chinese (Taiwan) to Chinese (PRC)
3. copy-paste the translated version into a second Word document
3. now you can write a little program in Word (or let a friend do it for you, if you cannot program, but it's really easy). Compare each entry in the simplified with the traditional version, if its found, delete it. The program might need some time, because you make around 4.000 x 4.000 /x = 8.000.000 - 12.000.000 comparisons, but that shouldn't harm, even if it runs for an hour.
4. Now you have a Word document which contains only the different characters and words.
5. might be, the skritter guys are so friendly to allow you a second account, then you could import it into a separate independent Skritter account and have 2 different independent versions. But how to you want to maintain it in the future?
One way could be, keep the Word document with the simplified version. After some while, export again all your characters and words. Before doing step 1 above, take the same algorithm and first compare the new one against the old one. Then you can continue with step 1 above.
You could also produce only 2 lists in Skritter, one for simplified, one for traditional. But I think, would be difficult and a lot of work, if you want to study existing lists from Skritter, because you only can study then one list at a time.

west316   December 31st, 2011 8:00p.m.

Export all of your lists into an Excell list. From there, make an Anki deck containing all of the 简化字 on the front while putting the 繁体字, how to read them, and the meaning on the back. With good cut and paste skills, it doesn't take long to make the deck.

I have a set of decks that are the reverse of that. 繁体字 are on the front while 简化字 are on the back along with the pinyin and meaning.

Skritter really isn't made for what you are looking for right now. Many of us have asked for it, but it isn't in the foreseeable future. What I described is what many of us do.

Edit: You would need to spam very easy on the ones where the two types of characters are the same. I don't know of an easy way to get around that requirement.

Edit2: I just read the last line of your post again. I guess I am more tired than I realized. I don't think there is any way to do it without violating the sorting out duplicate entries rule of yours.

ChrisClark   January 3rd, 2012 1:40p.m.

@west316,

Are you happy with how that current system is going? I myself am committed to learning to write both traditional and simplified characters, but I'm definitely interested in helping others that don't want to go that far.

Before I started using Skritter and Anki, I tried to learn traditional by just traditional reading practice, and was quite disappointed with my progress - characters like 馬 and 復 were no problem, but others like 幾, 歲, 豐 and 寶 got mushed together in my mind until I learned to write them. But again, I didn't have the support of an SRS system at the time.

Dennis   January 3rd, 2012 6:52p.m.

You might also download unihan.zip from the Unicode site. It's the UniHan DB which contains a very large number of Chinese characters. It contains a great deal of information about each character. For each character in the database one of the fields contains the simplified character if it exists for a traditional character. There are 2657.

If anyone wants, I can generate a complete list of simplified characters.

To save a lot of time in learning the simplified characters, you might want to look at the tables that specify the simplifications as of 1986. It will probably be more useful if you already know traditional and want to learn simplified. The chinese version is here:

http://zh.wikisource.org/zh/%E7%AE%80%E5%8C%96%E5%AD%97%E6%80%BB%E8%A1%A8

or look for 'Jianhuazi zong biao, "Complete List of Simplified Characters"'

Table 3 in particular details character components that are used to turn many traditional characters into simplified characters. These substitutions map 1753 traditional characters to simplified. This table is non-exhaustive.

For instance 见 is used like this:

贞 (貞) 则 (則) 负 (負) 贡 (貢) 呗 (唄) and many more

So memorizing a relatively small set of substitutions will give you a large number of simplified characters.

If you look for the "Complete List" you get the complete explanation of the system.

Some characters you still have to memorize individually.

If you already know this or I've not gotten this correct , please forgive me.

west316   January 4th, 2012 12:15p.m.

@ Chris Clark

I found it worked quite well. I think a person needs to learn how to write one type of character. That forces your mind to learn how to break down the characters and understand them on a more intrinsic level. After you understand one set of characters, your mind reflexively breaks down the other set. At least it did for me.

I study words and not characters, though. I was already "done" with studying my simplified characters before I started learning how to read traditional characters.

ChrisClark   January 4th, 2012 2:20p.m.

@west316

Great to hear!

Dennis   January 10th, 2012 2:20p.m.

You might also want to look at FanJian. It's a web app that teaches how to go from reading Traditional characters to Simplified or visa versa.

http://www.language.berkeley.edu/fanjian/start.html

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