http://www.pinyin.info/readings/texts/moser.html

"The other day one of my fellow graduate students, someone who has been studying Chinese for ten years or more, said to me "My research is really hampered by the fact that I still just can't read Chinese.It takes me hours to get through two or three pages, and I can't skim to save my life." "

I *think* I have a bit of reading comprehension down at this point. Whenever I go to an international supermarket I can make out the meaning of certain kinds of food. Skritter is also my only source of studying.

May be you have no problem reading modern Chinese. But how about something written more than 2000 years ago? Compare it to something written by Shakespeare (born in 1564) and you may understand the problem.

I think there is a big difference between reading 2-3 character food names and reading solid blocks of academic Chinese.

Congrats on reading the food names though, it's great to feel like your studies have real life usefulness.

"I think there is a big difference between reading 2-3 character food names and reading solid blocks of academic Chinese."

lol... really?

@icecream I would take it as a criticism of the way schools teach rather than proof that Chinese is impossible to learn. I know plenty of people who studied Spanish for years in school and still can't do important things like give directions or bribe a cop without resorting to English; meanwhile a not-particularly-smart dude I met in Guatemala had become practically fluent in about six months, because he had no other option. He spoke only Hungarian when he arrived, so HAD to learn Spanish.

Sure, Chinese is hard, but if you use a good system like Skritter you will make slow, steady progress. I have only been studying for a year and a half and haven't made as much progress as some of the superstars here, but I can definitely pick out a lot of words and characters when I try to read Chinese now.

As for "I think there is a big difference between reading 2-3 character food names and reading solid blocks of academic Chinese", one big difference is that food names are actually relevant to most people... ;)

James, who always starts with food

@sprinkles40, Isn't there a big difference between reading an English menu and, say, an essay by John Stuart Mill?

In Chinese this difference is even more pronounced.

@murrayjames would that be that a menu with English food? Queue up the English food jokes.

John Stuart Mill isn't the worst by far. Try some of this stuff out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deconstruction

If the alterity of the other is posed, that is, only posed, does it not amount to the same, for example in the form of the "constituted object" or of the "informed product" invested with meaning, etc.? From this point of view, I would even say that the alterity of the other inscribes in this relationship that which in no case can be "posed." Inscription, as I would define it in this respect, is not a simple position: it is rather that by means of which every position is of itself confounded (différance): inscription, mark, text and not only thesis or theme-inscription of the thesis.

WTF?!?!?

James

James, I'm doing a Ph.D. in the arts. Welcome to my world.

Derrida is tough but to be fair, you've probably never read him in French, his native language. Not sure it's much easier. Foucault, another French philosopher, is far more reader-friendly.

John Stuart Mill is hard to read mainly because he's so dry. "Utilitarianism" and "On Liberty" practically put me to sleep in college.

If you like tough, rewarding fiction, try "Infinite Jest" by David Foster Wallace. You'll never forget it :-)

The article isn't clear. My experience is that reading simple articles isn't a pain but like others have said, nobody can skim the densest of ancient Chinese works (which every other character allude to some other work of fiction or imply several other meanings). In fact most of these texts have lengthy notes beside them to describe the meaning (some of the notes as well are in ancient Chinese of a later dynasty).

Reading speed improves with practice (my mother-in-law is staying with us for a while so she's been helping by listening to me read things over-and-over patiently pointing out where I'm making mistakes - my reading speed has greatly improved because of this).

@murrayjames My degree was in math, so I happily avoided all that, ahem, fine reading, but in grad school I had some friends who were PhD students in English and so I got a little taste of the turgid Hell that is critical theory. No thanks.

I haven't read "Infinite Jest" yet but it's on my list. I was in a bookstore about a year ago looking for a gift for an intellectual friend and happened upon a collection of David Foster Wallace's essays called "Consider the Lobster". I didn't know anything about Wallace at the time and liked what I read, so I bought it and it has been a huge hit with my friend. He's already quoted it a couple of times on his blog, which is the highest possible endorsement nowadays. ;)

James

"try "Infinite Jest" by David Foster Wallace. You'll never forget it :-)"

That book was sad. You could tell it was a cry for help from David.

The article's great. Chinese is a language where it is entirely possible to study forever and still not be able to read well. The key quote is this: "a rigid economy of mental effort is imperative". If you don't hit the hanzi hard, you're going to waste a lot of time (like I did before Skritter). Spaced repetition can provide most of the economy for you, so things get a lot easier.

Moser's been posted here before, with interesting discussion:
http://www.skritter.com/forum/topic?id=20477462

@icecream, that's exactly right. I listened to an interview with DFW a few years before he died. He said he didn't understand why everyone kept telling him Infinite Jest is funny, when it's clearly very sad.

@James, One of the great things about Wallace--he could satirize critical theory using its own language, to show how ultimately unsatisfying the project really is.

"Consider the Lobster" is excellent. The title article alone is worth the price of the book. If you or your friend likes experimental short fiction, I recommend "Oblivion". It was the last thing Wallace published before he died, and it's unrelentingly brilliant.