or maybe even forgot.

How about it?

That's how I roll. But I do it manually.

Yeah, me too, I was just getting tired of that.

I grade manually that way too (when i show the single characters definition, not mnemonic)

would be nice

I'm don't really see how it would make any difference.

Current: It automatically selects "got it" which you then click once to accept it or click once to change it.

Suggested: It would automatically select either "so-so" or "forget". The user would still have to click once to accept it or change it.

Either way it will require a single click to move on. Unless your suggesting it moves on automatically which I believe would go against the methodology of allowing the user to quickly and easily override any choices the system makes for the user.

@mcfarljw: "How do you "click once to accept it"? If you're talking about clicking the "next" button, that's one click, period. If you click once to change it, you still have to click again to advance, so that's two clicks. Unless I'm confused about what you mean. And this only applies for single characters; word rating is a different process.

James

Well I guess it really didn't specify why type of item was being practiced this would be added to. If it's a definition then yes, you'd still have to click once to view the definition and it will auto-select "got it". But then if you click "so-so" it moves to the next item.

If you did the same thing on a writing thing, once you finish the writing it's just one click whether you change the default grade or not to get to the next item.

Are you only referring to definition practice this should apply to then?

I assumed he was talking about all prompt types.

Well then I'm not sure how it's two clicks to get to the next item. As soon as grading pops up it's either one click to confirm or one to change it then it moves on. Not sure what I'm missing here. I could be entirely absent minded on this though, been a long day haha.

Hmmmm, I just checked and it turns out that there's a difference in the UI when you have the "use grading buttons" turned on or off. I normally leave it off and use keystrokes; when you have it off, grading using keystrokes doesn't auto-advance to the next item. When you have "use grading buttons" turned on, using keystrokes or clicking the grading buttons *does* auto-advance. I hadn't used the grading buttons in a while, thus my confusion.

James

So do the grading buttons satisfy, or is there still a desire to have so-so become automatic when things like mnemonics are checked?

It's perhaps a little troublesome since people mark things differently? I'm also still wary about marking stuff yellow. It just builds up loads of half known reviews, never pushing the word further into the future, and never enough back for it to be learnt for next time.

I don't mind however, since I barely use mnemonics in advance. However, hide pinyin I check out early to see if the word I was thinking about was right before I started writing it, so I wouldn't want that one to start marking things yellow/red...

As Byzanti said people's own personal marking style would have to make any change like that an option on how low to mark it.

As James hadn't used the grading buttons in awhile. I have only been using them for a long time now. I think that enabling the grading buttons sufficiently negates any extra work required to adjust a grade and move onto the next item even if a mnemonic or hidden pinyin is clicked.

Actually I stopped using the grading buttons partially because of what Byzanti mentions: so-so items often enter a sort of limbo. But the main reason was that I was spending too much time thinking about how to grade things, when I should have just been marking them wrong and moving on.

The grading buttons only actually cover one specific case, for single characters in writing mode. I am personally much more concerned about words than characters at this point, so yeah, if other people are in agreement I'd like to see it turn the word yellow or red (my preference) as soon as I look at the mnemonic.

James

I just went through and tried it out without using the grading button for an extended period of time. I can see how after enough reps it would become a noticeable hindrance.

In my mind if you have to use a mnemonic it's wrong, because you shouldn't need a hint. Either you know it or you don't. I use so-so in one very specific instance that pops up several times a day during my practice. I use it on words that I have to sit and meditate on for an period of time (usually more then 15 or so seconds). In my mind thinking it out is extremely beneficial and as I was able to derive the answer logically without a hint. Since I did spend time thinking about it "forgot" was popping up too quickly and so-so was about the right timing for me.

But I suppose even if you marked one you spent too much time wrong it'd just pop up sooner and everything would work out. Using so-so just kept my daily queue down since I'm fairly militant about keeping low/empty so I can add new items.

Yeah, I think that's perfectly valid. If you sat and thought about it for a while, then remembered it, chances are you'd remember it without much trouble if it repeated quickly, so you might actually want a little delay in that case. My only concern with that is when the item was actually an old one that hasn't been reviewed for a long time, and the "so-so" rating schedules it for six months from now.

The Supermemo dude talks about how the strength of a memory actually has two parameters; he says that the speed with which you can retrieve a memory is independent of the retention strength. I haven't read through his references yet:

http://www.supermemo.com/articles/myths.htm (look for for "Myth: High fluency reflects high memory strength")

If you're trying to write something with no urgent time pressure - an email, let's say - you have plenty of time to remember how to write things. If you are in a conversation or chat, you need to be able to write it or say it quickly. If the Supermemo dude is right, you need to train differently to improve fluency - maybe speed drills, for example. If that's something you're concerned about you could maybe mark yourself wrong if it didn't come immediately to mind.

James

It seems like people grade enough different ways that it makes sense to keep the mnemonic/pinyin checking type things manual. It would help if we could come up with some shortcuts for toggling the word-level graders, perhaps.

Would it maybe be a good to add an option in the settings wheel, so that if the user felt so inclined, they could add the option so that revealing a characters definition/mnemonic would mark the word writing/character as wrong?

logically though, when you reveal the characters definition/mnemonic-- you didn't get it correct, did you? unless everyone has a little skritter bug in their ear everywhere they go hinting them along the way? (that would be nice... lol)

I'm trying really hard to avoid extra settings and preferences, seeing as how we have too many already.

The definition and reading reveal can both be useful if you know the word but need to disambiguate it with respect to some other word. The mnemonic field isn't used just for mnemonics, either; that's just the most common use case.