I was just browsing through the introductions to kill some time, and I saw Zach had studied in BLCU when he was in China. I studied in Tsinghua university. I thought there might be users planning on going to China who might be interested in our experiences in different schools/universities/provinces/...
I really recommend Tsinghua, they have awesome classes, and their teachers are trained to deal with Occidentals (so you don't get the tragic mind-bashing techniques that Asian-focused teachers use). They are pretty strict, so you can't miss more than 4 or 5 classes a semester, or else you don't get the diploma, which I think is good if you're not strong on discipline. The co-students I met there were some of the most interesting people I've ever met, that's something else I really loved about it. Another thing: you can do your ego a lot of good going there, since each time you'll tell a Chinese that you're studying at Tsinghua he'll be in total awe. Tsinghua is possibly the hardest university to get into for Chinese, with killer requirements. But to get into the Chinese classes is easy as for foreigners ^^
If you go there though, do not go in the dorms, they charge you way too much for what it's worth, you're better off taking an apartment nearby.

Concerning BLCU, I have a few friends who studied there, and people generally have mixed feelings about this uni. It used to be the best one for foreigners, and still enjoys the fame of its past years, but following what I heard I don't think it deserves it anymore. However they have a much nicer campus than Tsinghua (which is huge and cold), and a really great xinjiang restaurant.

As for Beida, I heard it's good, but I don't have much details. I went there twice, and kinda liked the atmosphere of the campus, but that's about it.

The district of those 3 unis is WuDaokou, where you have a lot of universities concentrated. It's a very young and cosmopolitan neighborhood, with devilish clubs and restaurants to go out too (Lush, Propaganda, C13 and D22...mmhhh)

There's one other place that I absolutely recommend if you want to do an internship in China, it's hutong school (http://www.hutong-school.com/). This company provides you with an internship and accommodation together with Chinese lessons. I studied there for a bit, the Chinese lessons are good in beginner, but their advanced students classes were so-so when I went there. The atmosphere is great, it's located in a nice area of Beijing and the people working there are really helpful (airport pickup, visa problems, getting a cellphone, ...)

Well that's it for me, I hope that helps some adventurers :)

Hey Ellie

That was very interesting to read.
I have been thinking about going to China to study but I'm not sure whether I would be able to find anything suitable...maybe you or someone else has an idea what my best options are...

I am interested in taking a Chinese course preferably in the North of China (because that's where my in-laws are). I already speak Chinese fluently on a small talk level but my reading and writing skills are still somewhat below the oral skills. Although I am currently redoing it, I would estimate I can master the HSK 1 list (can write it....also thanks to skritter:). I haven't studied Chinese at my local university (business psychology)so there aren't any programs I get take advantage of.

I know there are courses for total beginners, but I'd guess that would be boring, but I don't know at what level exactly I could/should join...are there established levels (apart from the HSK)?

What would your suggestions be?

Thanks

David

My recommendation is to study 1:1, either entirely or in addition to classes at one of the universities. In four months studying 1:1 for three hours a day (excluding weekends) I went from scratch to having enough Chinese to use in basic business situations. (And from that point went straight into a job where the working language is Chinese.) You've got to want to study and you need to persevere, but there's no better way.

For comparison, the year I spent learning Japanese in a Tokyo university didn't get me anywhere near the same level of fluency after two three-month terms. (And I'd already studied it for a four month semester in the US, and worked with Japanese students for over five years.)

For 1:1 in Beijing, you basically should look to pay about approx 80 to 100 yuan an hour - anything less and you're likely getting hand-me-down teachers. I tried a couple of schools and eventually went with That's Mandarin (www.thatsmandarin.com) and I wholeheartedly recommend them. It's not the cheapest but it's popular, expanding, professional, is the only place with full time teachers and I improved so quickly the efficiency totally outweighed initial cost worries.

Apart from TM there are dozens of other schools around the Wudaokou area - a few are aimed more at Koreans and a few seem to be struggling, so shop around carefully before you take the plunge. Most of all, make sure the teacher can actually *teach*...!

One downside of doing 1:1 is that you don't get the instant classmate buddies you get from a uni programme. But that said, TM is full of students from Cambridge, Oxford, Harvard, Chicago, Colombia as well a few people also doing the uni courses at Tsinghua, Beida or BLCU. I have also met people from embassies and nearby companies (including Google, Morgan Stanley and even a lady from NASA who's designing the inside of a space shuttle). So the wider demographics could also be considered a plus point depending on your mentality.

One problem to think about is that 1:1 language schools can't get you an X visa. (Some claim they can but this is always dodgy and unreliable.) If you don't want both 1:1 and a uni course, you should probably get a job working 12 hours a week teaching English. Many English language schools will be able to sort you out with a 1-year visa and accommodation.

Oh and something else -- you can also do 1:1 skype classes with That's Mandarin (and a few other schools), which are quite popular. A lot of students including many of friends continue to have them after they've left China. Actually, if you email TM and ask Xiaochao for a free trial lesson I'm sure he'll sort you out with one after Spring Festival holiday.

James

I agree with James for the 1:1, it's definitely the best way to progress fast, but then you also need to keep busy the rest of your day, and meet people...so if you have a job over there you should be alright, but if not you'll get depressed !! I don't know That's mandarin, but it does sound very good indeed.
If you're concerned about falling into too easy classes, most universities make you take a test before selecting which class you'll go to, and they generally are flexible if you want to swap levels. Considering what you said, I'd say you'd be good for 201 at Tsinghua following what you wrote.

Oh yeah, the biggest problem with 1:1 (for me) is discipline. When you don't do your homework but you're the only student you won't feel embarrassed. If the whole class has done it, it sucks :) I needed that kind of motivation at the time.

fwiw, I can recommend Taipei Language Institute in Taipei,Taiwan. I studied 1:1 conversation for $10/hour in a lovely, sunny school. A different tutor would come in every hour. I did 1 to 3 hours per day.

I agree with Allisonting

It might be hard to believe but the best place to learn a "perfect" mandarin (without external tone) is still in Taiwan, especially in Shida which is considered as the best mandarin school in the world (in 2006 and 2007 at least, I don't have the 2008 ranking).

But it may be quite harsh for some because they do not use pinyin (Zhuyin Fuhao) nor simplified chars (I know only trads for instance)

thanks a lot for all your feedback!

I will looking into. I will more concentrate on the china mainland though. Mainly because i have family there but also because i actually want to go with the simplified characters (I know all the arguments for the traditional ones, but they haven't convinced me or maybe I should say they don't apply to my situation...but that is maybe a conversation worth a new thread:).

it might still take a year or so until my wife and me go for something like that (live in china for a while) but the sooner one has a rough idea the better because I would really hate to waste my time at a miserable school.

Learn or not trad chars depends actually on your situation, if you plan to live most of your time in the mainland, that's true that to learn trads as well as simps won't be very useful (and very long !)

In my case I pass 90% of my private & business time between HK and TW, as you guessed, in that case learning simps is not very relevent, especially that most of the mainlanders can undestand trads so it's ok for me :)

That was exactly my argument i.e. that it depends on the situation. I will be on the Mainland, specifically in the North so the amount of exposure to traditional characters is limited to the odd bit of calligraphy and a handful of Hongkong movies and songs (although also there I guess one could find versions with updated simplified characters).
But whenever I brought this argument up at other places, they were not considered valid arguments.

Nice to find like-minded people...I'm starting to like Skritter even more ;)

Yep, I went to BLCU with near zero knowledge of chinese. I wouldn't recommend it for those at a basic or low intermediate level. The reason for this is because the classes are large ~25 and the english of the teachers is extremely limited, this is a major problem with your chinese knowledge is near zero.
My experiences are with the BLCU short term courses (6-12 months) I have heard that the three year courses and other long courses are much better.
For an absolute beginner I would recommend a private language institute with private or small class tuition.

However, experiences in China cannot be measured by language ability alone. I had a great time at BLCU and made many interesting friends from all around the world, we had a lot of fun exploring China together and always sharing our adventures, I learnt a lot from all of them.
I feel that if I went to a smaller institution I would not have had such a good experience, although my chinese would be a lot better.

A note of warning if you want to stay in china long term; BLCU short term students all leave and only a few come back. I'm not sure what it is like at other places.

I so looking forward to go back to school to learn chinese ! Since I left Taiwan ( :'( ) for HK, my writing and reading abilities kept improving (thank to Skritter it's skyrocketing now) but my listening, speaking and comprehension went down dramatically.

I spent a short time at the Beijing Institute of Economic management in 2004. BIEM. It's a very small school and doesn't compare to Beida or Qinghua in terms of prestige, but the tuition is incredibly cheap and it's easy for foreigners to get in. They offer lots of CFL classes and the dorms are also quite nice.

Why not try a differnt city other than Beijing and Shanhai? The College of Interntional Education (CIE) of Tianjin University of Technology that is located in Tianjin is a desirable institute to learn Chinese mandarin. Tianjin is famous for its friendly citizens. The teachers of CIE are experienced in teaching Chinese to foreigners, and they are very helpful and friendly, and what is more, the cost of Chinese courses and living expenses are much lower, only about half as that in Beijing. Try the website and learn more about the university.
http://www.freewebs.com/chinanorth
http://www.tjut.edu.cn/gjjy

Yeah, I know a friend who studied at TianJin. It is a much cheaper option.

Try this one, http://www.1to1mandarinworkshop.com/
Very good choice. P.s.I was there last summer and look forward to coming back next year.

Someone have experience with ICS-China?
I had a look at their website ( www.ics-china.com ) like hutong school they also offer chinese language course in Beijing. Any thoughts?