http://lost-theory.org/chinese/phonetics/

I came across this website with a table with the 400 or so chinese syllables. Perhaps you've already seen it, however what makes this great is that you can click on each syllable and hear what it sounds like. It might be a bit basic for many of you, however I thought I'd share it anyway and perhaps some beginners like me out there find it just as useful.

Perhaps someone knows a good resource that also teaches you HOW to pronouce these syllables. So far I haven't been able to find one. Our teacher has explained it to us but I still seem to have some issues with it and I would need to have some tangible source of reference and unfortunately our book only has a table like the one above but without any explanations.

Best wishes,
Yagebu

Try http://fsi-language-courses.org/Content.php?page=Chinese which has extensive phonetics instruction.

Fantastic! If you right click on the player it gives you an option of downloading it as an mp3. I am getting an iphone in short and will definately try to get it on there so that I can study chinese during the Christmas holidays. However, I am not sure if iphone playes mp3's (?)

I did some digging and also found the course textbook for anyone interested: http://ia341332.us.archive.org/3/items/FSI-StandardChinese-StudentTexts/

All the textbooks are also available on http://fsi-language-courses.org/Content.php?page=Chinese

Look for the links that say "Text".

Thank you for the heads up :)

So I have had a go with listening to the course and I decided to go straight for what I am having the most difficulty with, namely the so called Affricates (tape 3, display II):

Unaspirated-aspirated

Zhang4-Chang4
Jiang4-Qiang4
Zang4-Cang4

I think I have managed to pin down the difference between the first two pairs (Zh-Ch & J-Q) but the last pair (Z-C) is really causing me difficulties.

The speaker on the tape says that both start at the "dental" position, meaning having your tounge almost against your teeth. Then she says that both should be pronounced like ts but since Zang4 is unaspirated it means that you won't hear the s. Does this mean that Zang4 should be pronounced like a chinese T but without the aspiration? Anyone know of an english word that could help me pronounce Zang4 and Cang4?

@Yagebu It's kind of like the "z" in "pizza", which is to say, it's like a "ts" sound. The difference between z and c is that c is aspirated while z is not. See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin#Pronunciation_of_initials

James

This is speaking from an American accent, but there are words in English that have these sounds.

I would say the 'z' sounds like the final sound in the word like 'pills' or 'men's' while the 'c' sounds like the final sound in words like 'cats'.

One trick is to begin by simply tacking on the the Chinese final to one of these words. For example, try saying 'pillz-ang' vs. 'cats-ang'. I'm sure you will notice a difference in your pronunciation. Then take off the first syllable.

I think "pizza" is an accurate phonetical transcription. So we have an r-sound with the tongue curled back for Zh-Ch, an i-sound for J-Q and a "pizza" sound for Z-C. Or if you will simply retroflex, palatal and dental.

The thing I am still unsure about with Z-C is how to get the pizza sound to be unaspirated with Z. I don't feel like I can do it without at least a small flow of air coming out of my mouth. However, I am not sure whether it has to be "airless" for it to be unaspirated. Is it ok with a little bit of air?

I understand if it is difficult for you to understand my questions and even more difficult to explain in words. But thanks for trying :)

In any case, tomrrow I will ask some people in my class and see if they have figured out how to pronounce Z.

My last post was in response to James post.

@蓓蕾, that was well explained and I think I understand the difference now. To me Z as in men's and pills almost sounds like st while C sound more like ts. What do you think?

Also, with C it feels like I am building pressure and then releasing it while with Z the pressure before letting go is less. Would you agree with this?

I think the main issue is making sure that your 'c' is aspirated, at least compared to your 'z', so you do want a strong puff of air. The difference (to my ear) is fairly exaggerated in Chinese, as with Chinese 'b' and 'p'. If you put your hand in front of your mouth, see if you feel a puff of air coming out. Or put a light piece of paper over your mouth and see if it moves.

There's an excellent series on Chinesepod.com, but not sure you can get it if you're not subscribed to it.

John Pasden, one of the teachers on chinesepod, has some good stuff on his website - http://www.sinosplice.com/learn-chinese/pronunciation-of-mandarin-chinese

Well, I always imagine the c sound to be more like ts. Seems to work for me! I wouldn't say the z and c sounds are close at all. Others are much closer. My zheng zhang are too close for comfort. How do others pronounce this? the ang just feels like a longer eng to me.

The A in the ang has a much more open mouth for me. The tongue also drops down low for the eng but stays up moderately high for the A. I feel pressure on my lower front jaw when saying the eng. I don't for the ang.

I don't know if that is of help or not, but that is how my mouth does it.

That's a good tip there with the tongue lowered. It feels a bit unnatural and exaggerated at the moment, but there's certainly more of an eng sound to it. Thanks :).

Chinese pod seems like a great self-study website from what I've heard but as I am already studying a course I won't sign up for it at this time.

However, I found the website that Shinyspoons gave to be extremely helpful. It deals with the linguistics rather than trying to find equivalent pronounciations in english. I'd say a more scientific approach that leaves less room for missconception.

@Yagebu if you want, drop me an email here - shinyspoons@yahoo.co.uk - and i will send you a computer program that will take you through each sound,explaining how it is pronounced and giving pictures to show where you tongue goes.

Thank you, that would be fantastic! I have sent you an email.

@ShinySpoons
Is that program available anywhere? I'm sure that many people would be interested in that sort of thing as our Western mouths can struggle with the Eastern sounds! :) I guess you don't want to be mailing the program out to everyone one at a time!

There's also an Anki deck "Pronounced Mandarin Chinese Pinyin" which I've found very helpful. I find that "c" vs. "z" isn't my problem, it's "in/an" vs. "ing/ang" and second tone vs. third tone.

@HappyBlue I got it from a friend who got it from a book store in Beijing. Its called Interactive Chinese (互动汉语) by Sinalingua. drop me an email since I've already done it once it it shouldn't take to long to send it again

sorry that should be Sinolingua

I think it helps if you consider the Z sound to be more like a ds. It sure helps me. :)