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Dealing with synonyms

wakarimasen   March 13th, 2011 12:56p.m.

Any suggestions for how to best deal with synonyms in Skritter. The best (or perhaps worst) example I can think of is:

固い, 堅い and 硬い

All are pronounced かたい (katai) in Japanese, and all have the same meaning (at least according to Denshi Jisho).

1: hard; solid; tough;
2: stiff; tight; wooden; unpolished (e.g. writing);
3: strong; firm (not viscous or easily moved);
4: safe; steady; honest; steadfast;
5: obstinate; stubborn;
6: bookish; formal; stuffy

At present, the best way I know to deal with this is to start drawing and hope I catch that I'm drawing the wrong version before it rejects too many strokes. If I'm very cautious, I should know after the second stroke; however, if I'm blitzing through my review list...

I do want to keep all three in my list, as it appears that each form is commonly used.

jww1066   March 13th, 2011 1:24p.m.

Disclaimer: I'm not studying Japanese. However, I've run into very similar problems studying Spanish and Chinese.

If they're really complete synonyms, you might be in some trouble, but Skritter's custom definitions can save you. You can put a hint in the custom definition that lets you know which one you need to write. If you don't want to put an English hint, you could put a full sample sentence into your custom definition (replacing the character in question with _ or whatever) and then you would need to remember which sample sentence uses which version.

Another issue might be that native speakers tend to always use one particular version in a particular context. In that case you would need that extra context to determine which variant to use, and it should reflect the idiomatic usage. For example, if one variant is used in more formal writing while one is used in email, you could just add "(formal)" and "(email)" to the custom definitions.

James

wakarimasen   March 13th, 2011 3:06p.m.

As far as I can tell with my limited Japanese, 堅い, 硬い and 固い are complete synonyms.

Initially, I was thinking about including the radical as a hint, but that is a bit too blunt. Based on your suggestion of sample sentences, I got thinking that these Kanji are not always interchangeable within the context of other words. Now using the custom definitions:

堅い: hard; solid; stiff; strong; safe; stubborn (_木)
硬い: hard; solid; stiff; strong; safe; stubborn (_式)
固い: stiff; tight (_体)

The examples corresponding to hardwood, hardball and solid-state, respectively.

This should do the trick. Thanks for the tip.

Hope this is helpful to others encountering similar confusion with synonyms.

jww1066   March 13th, 2011 3:44p.m.

Great, hope it helps. I had the same problem with 但是 and 可是 in Chinese. As far as I can tell they're completely interchangeable (experts, please correct me if I'm wrong). At least they have different pronunciations, though.

James

Byzanti   March 13th, 2011 3:48p.m.

I think my teacher once said 但是/不过 are generally more spoken, and 可是 is more written. I can't promise that's right however.

pts   March 13th, 2011 5:30p.m.

In the following sentence, either 可是 or 但是 can be used.
虽然住得远,可是|但是 他从来没有迟到。

But here, only 可是 can be used, since 但是 must precede the subject.
虽然住得远,他可是从来没有迟到。

Also, zdic gives 6 meanings to 可是 but only 1 meaning to 但是. So, they are not “completely” interchangeable.

jww1066   March 13th, 2011 6:08p.m.

@pts thanks! That had bothered me for a while.

fluvius1   March 13th, 2011 8:38p.m.

I actually had asked my friend in Tokyo about this particular set of synonyms last year, and his reply was that the first one implied a solid situation (e.g. a solid promise), the second "firm and tight", and the third "hard, solid (condition of material)". There is also a fourth, like the second one but with the thread radical below rather than the earth one. He said that was "serious or stable". (Sorry, I can't do kanji on my PC).

There seems to be some leeway; the term "kinchou" referring to mental strain uses this fourth type.

I have, for example, seen at least 2 different kanji used for "tsukau"(make), one for common use, and one for formal use (say, in a chant).

I have noticed that Denshi Jishou does indeed lump them all together without noting the shades of meaning. This may be because of interchangable useage, but it does limit the usefulness of the program. It would be good if they gave shades of meaning (would be quite a task though!)

wakarimasen   March 14th, 2011 11:07p.m.

Thanks for the insight. Guess the subtleties will come with time.

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